When Clients go bad
Thu, Jul 24, 2008
Working with clients can be total nightmare and when I saw Adii post this to his blog this morning, I decided I just had to share it! The funny thing is, that it goes right along in the context of this past weeks discussions about time management, so I doubt I could really find a more relevant time to show it. The video shows what almost every real designer has to deal with and while funny… it’s very true.
A day in the life of a designer…
I know it’s a bit glorified, but when I gripe about not getting things accomplished in a day or getting burned out over the most silly of things… maybe after watching this you’ll have a better understanding of why…. Enjoy!
Long term affects of abuse
Now don’t get me wrong, clients are the ones who pay the bills around this joint but boundaries need to be set and maybe now you can see why. Everyone from School teachers to hairdressers have unions to help regulate and remove any potential monopolization and abuse… so why not designers? We get trampled, abused, requested, blamed, and ripped off more often than you might think and usually by the SAME client!
The reason is because we are all trying to earn a living, build a reputation, and find loyal customers… it’s a hard task, but it’s the only way we survive. Much like an endangered species… we too will eventually become over hunted (abused) and die off.
Why are prices on the rise?
If any of you have ever needed a design for something, you’ll know that getting bids is scary. Scary only because you never know what body parts you’ll be asked to sell to pay us. The fact of the matter is that abuse like portrayed in this video, is the very reason prices are on the rise. But the good news is… you all actually have a chance to start making a difference by cutting us some slack and letting us do out job. If you need some mindless grunt to push buttons on a computer while you dictate the design… go hire a high school student.
You think our prices are going up for fun? LOL, not quite my friends… they are going up because our available time is going down. When our time goes down due to over bearing clients… our work load goes down. When our work load drops, so does our income. And of course when that happens… we pass that along to you… the overbearing client. Sounds fun right? Yeh, it hurts all of us.
The debate could go on.
I know starting a debate that I don’t have time to argue right now is not wise… so I’ll mark this full post as one to explore in coming weeks. In the meantime… take a look atthe video again and hoefully you’ll start to realize that we are people too you know. We don’t like to get abused and we don’t like feeling like we’ve let our clients down. Take a step back and realize that any good designer can deliver… all we ask is to be treated fairly.
So what do you think about the video? I know some of you still have jobs, so how does this scenerio fair out in your work environments?
July 24th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Haha - love the post bud!
And seriously well said! Clients need to realize that we are more than puppets and that they are paying us to be more than puppets… But doubt that the control freaks will leave town soon…
Adiis last blog post..Making Money Online: The No-BS way
July 24th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
I love it! The video is perfect and exactly true.
Maybe you can make every potential client watch the video as a warning about what improvised thoughts and adjustments turn into. On second thought, your clients would deny it anyway (hehe).
July 24th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
@ Adii: Thanks bro… I don’t think clients will ever leave us alone. The fundamental problem is that our work is usually non-tangible. It’s not like buying a car or a house. People as a whole like to touch, feel, lick, sniff, scratch and kick what they buy. So when it comes to design… they are pretty darn apprehensive about spending the money (even though we deserve it).
As a result of their apprehension, they become over bearing. They feel as if what we do is of less value than say… a pile of garden dirt and to make up for it, dictation and harassment is okay. LMAO… I don’t think they are heading out any time soon either… but we can dream.
@ Mrs. Piss: I’d love to force this little gem down the throats of a few clients right about now. But you’re right… they would tell me that watching it was wasting their time and money and for that they now deserve a discount.
July 24th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
I’m in the same position, for weddings it’s a done deal, they can say what’s important for them before the wedding and I will take all that into consideration when capturing and editing their wedding. Once I’m editing, they don’t get to tell me what to change and once delivered that’s it. If they want to have something changed then it’s a separate invoice but once I show my hourly rates then I usually don’t have to change anything anymore. They also cannot complain afterwards if they don’t like the way I edited it and not pay me for that reason, I have got myself pretty good covered in the terms on the contract they sign. only when there would be a mistake which clearly was mine (a misspelled name f.i.) only then I will change it without extra costs.
When I work for a company, now that’s completely different and they get to see a raw draft first and they can tell me what they like and don’t like. if they tell me they want to have it in black and white and I don’t think it’s a good idea, I”ll tell them but if they insist B/W it will be. The reason why it’s different is that I charge companies per hour and wedding couples pay a fixed price.
If a company wants me to redo an edit 5 times and it takes me 4 hours each time they get charged 20 hours editing time.
I’d say, stop complaining and deal with it, as long as a client pays for it I would do it, even if I don’t like it. Only thing I might consider in that case would be to remove my logo at the end of the film.
July 24th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
HAHA - That is the funniest video I have seen all week. I can picture your work much clearer now PB. Is that where you got the pink/blue theme for this site??
Reggae Artistss last blog post..Dread, Beat An’ Blood - A Lesson in Dub Poetry!
July 24th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
That’s the thing, though. I’m not saying everyone, but a lot of designers now have become jaded, and approach each client like an idiot. It may be due to some clients, but it’s bred this pretentiousness that seems to be abound. I’m not saying every designer is like this, and I know that some people may be very very very hard to work with, but not everyone is like that. I once had a designer create an E-Store for me many years ago, and the whole process was just intoloerable. The guy treated me like an idiot from start to finish, didn’t want to hear any of my ideas about the site, and every time i tried to speak he would just basically ignore what was saying, or when a change was requested he would huff and puff. And here’s the thing, I basically gave him free reign to do as he liked, but all I was requesting was to have certain height set in the header so my logo would appear properly, and have the color scheme set to match the logo. Hardly an impossible client, if you ask me. I’m the type of person that is going to let a designer go to work because in the end you are going to get the best possibility. I’m hiring someone because I like their style, so why hinder it?
July 25th, 2008 at 12:49 am
I have got the same impression Nick as you do, it sometimes is like some webdesigners don’t want to be criticized. They also sometimes complain about the stupid questions clients ask and they write it on the same blog were they also sell themselves. I actually would never buy something from a designer that has such an attitude.
I might think the same about certain clients but would never publicly complain about it or write about it in my companyblog.
I consider myself a “professional” in my area of business but I treat every client of mine with respect, like a webdesigner that considers themselves a pro as well every question we get from our client who just knows we do video or make websites will sound “stupid” but it’s absolutely normal as they don’t have the same level of knowledge on the subject we have. Just because they contact us means they like our style and it’s your job to answer any stupid question with patience and give our opinion about any request they make. But at the end, as long as they are paying for it, we should deliver acc to their wishes.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:07 am
Boy oh boy this could get long. I agree and I disagree. First, I agree that some designers are snobby. In fact, snobby designers are one of my biggest pet-peeves, so much so, that I often turn down business because of it. Being a designer, I’m in contact with other design firms on a pretty regular basis and as a whole they are okay.
More often than not, when designers meet in some sort of proverbial collision course it goes something like this…
Them: “Oh hi! I took a look at your work and I think its great.”
Me: “Well thank you, I appreciate the compliment”
Them: “Not a problem. You must be in production right?”
Me: “No I do custom development too”
Them: “Oh really? I figured you were using templates.”
Me: “No not at all”
Them: Hmmm… well, we do more custom work than anything”
Me: “That’s nice. We give our customers what they ask for”
Them: “Well of course, but using templates makes your job easier”
Me: “I’ve mentioned already that we don’t use templates”
Them: “Oh sorry. I figured that’s how you’ve gotten so many clients”
That was a conversation with a snobby designer… some folks think that because you;re good, or successful, or even because you’ve got a loaded portfolio, that you must be taking short cuts. Ya see, production is a term used to “imply” that you care more about the money than the work (the art).
As a designer, it’s very difficult to find a good balance. On the designers side, we have a skill, experience and hopefully talent. that means our opinion has a certain value.
On the client side… most don’t want you to use your total ability. They want you to simply meet a budgetary requirement. That’s when the shift in attitudes begins. I’m in a circle jerk kind of mood tonight so here is the cycle of how designer and client relationships work…
Client: “I want this. I want that”
Designer: “Okay no problem. Let me look into it for you.”
Client: “Well what do you think it will cost?”
Designer: “I’m actually going to have to see what’s involved first”
Client: “Well it can’t be more than two hours worth of work, right?”
Designer: “I’m not sure yet. Give me a day or two to investigate”
Client: “Well I just need a guess. A ballpark.”
Designer: “Okay. Between $1,800 & $2,500.00″
Client: “Wow, that’s more than I thought”
Designer: “What did you base your assessment on?”
Client: “Well I just don’t think it looks that hard to do”
Designer: “If it suits you, feel free to seek a second opinion”
Client: “Oh I am don’t worry. but in the meantime, get me a bid”
** Two Days Later **
Designer: “Hi Mr. Client, here is the bid you requested”
Client: “Okay. Cut A B and C out and give me a new price”
Designer: “Okay Mr. client here is your new bid”
Client: “Damn I really thought it would be cheaper”
Designer: “Cutting out two images is only a nominal reduction”
Client: “Well I need to get this proposal down another 50 percent”
Designer: “Cut out all the SEO work. At least get the website”
Client: “What will that mean for my business?”
Designer: It means your trimming the fat to meet your budget”
Client: “Can that be added later?”
Designer: “Sure. Anytime you;re ready to.”
Client: “Okay do it… but I need it in two weeks”
Designer: “As mentioned in my proposal, it will be four weeks”
Client: “Well can you rush it please? I need the help!”
Designer: “No promises but if it’s complete early, you’ll know”
** A month after the project was completed **
Client: “I thought you said you were good!?!”
Designer: “Excuse me?”
Client: “Well i paid all this money and no sales yet!”
Designer: Are you marketing your site?
Client: “I’ve been handing out business cards”
Designer: “You need to do some MA and SEO sir… are you ready?”
Client: “No way! I’m hiring someone else”
Designer: “I’m sorry to hear that”
Client: “and I’m going to tell my friends you suck too!”
Designer: “That’s a bit unfair don’t you think?”
Client: “Why? You’re supposed to be the pro. I’m losing money”
Designer: “Maybe that’s because you cut out some important stuff”
Client: “What do you mean… I did what you told me to do”
Designer: “No sir. You did the minimum. You demanded a cut in costs”
Client: “F-You! Now you’re saying I’m cheap. You just want my money”
Designer: “No sir, I want to be compensated for my work.”
Client: “I paid you”
Designer: “Sir, you cut corners. It’s not my fault, but I can help”
Okay I’m having flash backs now so that’s enough of that. And even though this is a bit vague and maybe fantastic… the point clearly shows that when designers agree to listen… they are then promptly blamed for something that goes wrong or not as planned.
I know. I’ve had hundreds of clients and no matter what is said in the beginning… at some point we get blamed for the whole bag of apples going bad (if it goes bad).
In response, designers can take two approaches to handle this reputation issue.
1.) Be a prick and tell you how he or she will do things.
2.) Be a push over and be told what to do.
One is the hard approach, and one is the soft approach. With tha hard approach, if something goes wrong, you are to blame. However, if you’re good and actually have the experience you calm… that failure rate should be kept to a minimum. Oh did I mention that you get paid what you’re worth?
Being a weenie gets you less money (generally)…gets you blamed for failures (more often)… and it earns you a nasty little reputation for not having a clue about what you’re doing. After all, if the online project you built is a success, it’s likley you’ll never see any credit for it. The guy who hired you told you what to do remember?
Okay so all of this is a it exaggerated, but hopefully it stirs a little commotion and maybe even one of those rare and elusive debates!
July 25th, 2008 at 2:22 am
Oh I failed to mention that in corporate worlds design, you never see designer credit… that’s part of the game… we accept it. but that also plays into the hand of being treated fairly.
When it comes to the little guy… they covet their resources. Unlike Robin who earns referral from great wedding videos… businesses HIDE their designers if they are happy. Sometimes they even slap you with a non compete trying to bar you from working for a similar business.
A lot of times it’s more “take” on the client end than “give”, not realizing the punishment that a good designer might suffer from being… good. And just because you got paid something… does not mean you got paid to keep quiet and hide… never being allowed to promote your work.
Maybe that’s why i myself don’t have a portfolio of work for you all to peruse.
One final thing to clarify… I’m not bitching… I just want everyone to see that there is more to the business of being a good designer that pretty pictures and collecting a few bucks. We’ve got lots going against us… more so than for us. We just ask for a little help from those clients who benefit from what we do.
July 25th, 2008 at 2:24 am
hehe, I really enjoy your writing style, you should consider publishing a book
July 25th, 2008 at 2:26 am
Thanks Robin! LOL… maybe one day. All I need to do is learn how to type, spell and use proper grammar all at once.
July 25th, 2008 at 3:21 am
People love to read these kind of stories, especially in the way you verbalized it. Here in the Dutch part I have seen at least 2 bookwriters publishing about annoying customers and how they can harm your business but it also explains why customers are complaining which often can a problem in communication.
One book is called “kloteklanten”, you can’t translate it literally but it somewhat means “f*cking customers” and it’s about a marketingadviser who got input from 6000 customers about their experience with companies and he used this info to talk with the company managers and learned them how they can use this to their benefit.
I think this is a much better approach to talk to the customers to know why they are not satisfied instead of talking to the companies to ask why they dislike some customers.
I sometimes get annoying customers but I always ask myself why that happened and how I can avoid it next time, you can’t get an answer to every problem but it helps to take some distance to look at it. this is something I learned in my previous job were I was a teamleader for quality department who had to deal with many, sometimes annoying, customers.
F.i. about 2 years ago sometimes people complained that a certain part on the dvd was to short, they wanted to see more from the reception or from the dancing. I had an option were they could choose a long version with all that I filmed but most did not want to pay extra for it but it were those who complained afterwards that their short version dvd with the highlights was too short.
One year later I then just raised my prices and included the long version in every package and since then I had no complains anymore and only happy clients.
Sometimes the solution is so easy that you ask yourself why you have not been doing this sooner.
July 25th, 2008 at 9:02 am
Wow. All of this information is really intriguing to me. I never really realized how much of a pain your customers can be.
Personally, any time I am interested in acquiring something creatively produced, I always try to map out to myself what I’m interested in, then I try to present (clearly) to the creator what I have in mind. But then I am sure to let the creator know that I trust in their judgment and creative genius (when I do actually trust them).
Therefore, I am able to give the creativity a chance to expand into brilliance. Occasionally, that takes a turn toward something I’m not really interested in, but almost always it leads to something even better than I imagined originally. Of course, I think it all goes back to how much you trust someone, their creativity, and their abilities.
For example, thought about the possibility of getting a tattoo a couple of years ago. of course, I wouldn’t want any shitty image or words on my skin for the rest of my life. After about six months, I thought of a very basic design that I really liked that included a symbol I use every time I write my name combined with the nickname (Shotgun) I’ve gone by since I was 5 or 6.
I made a very primitive sketch (I’ve no artistic drawing ability) of the two combined and then gave it to a friend who painted and whose work I really thought was good. I just asked her to come up with something cool (and damn did she!). Anyways, I loved her design, and my sister paid for me to get the ink done for my X-mas present. Then dealing with the tattoo artist, there were a couple of small “tweaks” to the design, and I trusted him and his work (he’s a cousin by marriage so I knew of his work priorly), and the tattoo turned out great. [Sorry that was my very long example.]
P.S.: @PB I don’t know if you have tried, or have had time to get around to it, to re-send me an e-mail, but I haven’t received anything. If you have and for some reason it isn’t working, maybe it’ll work, if you try the e-mail I use for my web site: TheBlueWorkhorse@gmail.com. Just curious to see what you have to say. Thanks in advance.
July 25th, 2008 at 11:31 am
@ Robin: You’re so very right. At my office, I’ve gotten everyone here on the same page with customer satisfaction.
Without going into immense detail, I can say that we’ve had ZERO customer complaints since I took over here. I’m not tooting my own horn, but six years as a freelance designer taught me tons about how NOT to handle customers.
However when one of my staff decides to be a big shot and make their own decisions regarding the client… we lose money, a client, and a little piece of that wonderful reputation we earn day in and day out.
@ Blue: You seem to have an ideal scenario down… I’m impressed. As for your e-mail… let me try it again… this is round 3 I think!
Good thing for me I bill by the hour!
PBs last blog post..When Clients go bad
July 25th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Not really to do with designers… although I suppose it is in a way…
PR is currently updating.
Looks like The Piss Biscuit is now PR3 (and from 0 that’s good I reckon).
Nice one PB!
Oh yeah, same applies to me, lol!
zanias last blog post..Make Money Blogging. A Beginners Story
July 25th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Where do you see that at Zania?
July 25th, 2008 at 11:59 pm
Oh I guess the toolbar just hasn’t been updated, checked it out on iwebtool.com and mypagerank.net and the old PB is showing a 3 on some of the DC’s. According them I’m staying at a 5, which is just fine with me. Would rather stand pat than fall. I don’t know why I get so freaked out each time this happens, I’m always afraid that Google is gonna pull out the baby powder and pimp slap me for something I unknowingly did.
July 26th, 2008 at 12:22 am
I usually go to this one:
http://seo.forum.hu/pagerank/update/
Having quite a few adult sites, I’m always relieved when I see page rank at all, lol!
So I was quite happy that the one in my sig is a 3 from a 0.
Makes a nice change
zanias last blog post..Make Money Blogging. A Beginners Story
July 26th, 2008 at 12:23 am
@ Zania: Well lets see… I’ve been blogging for 7 weeks. May 28 was my first post. So I’d say not bad at all!
@ Nick, yeh the tool bar is lagging. Have no fear… they wouldn’t dare lower your PR… that would open them up to a really nice “Ugly Stick Beat Down!”
July 26th, 2008 at 12:34 am
Ok, you beat me.
I started my blog on May 6th…
The other blog I sometimes link to here is PR2 and that was started on 17th of May, so you’ve definitely beaten me there as well.
Well done PB
zanias last blog post..Make Money Blogging. A Beginners Story
July 26th, 2008 at 12:42 am
So I think it’s time for a post about stats again!
@ Zania: Only by a little under three weeks
Gotta love REAL content and an awesome community! Looks like I’ll be writing a while!
July 26th, 2008 at 12:52 am
Yep,
even more reason to keep The Piss Biscuit going .. and for you to keep writing…
zanias last blog post..Make Money Blogging. A Beginners Story